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1200 point Allied force [sbg]
http://wwww.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=20105		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Mor-galad of Greenwood [ Fri Jan 28, 2011 1:44 pm ]
Post subject:  1200 point Allied force [sbg]
So, my friend and I spend quite a while building this list. I wanted to put it up here to get some opinions. We've already had our fight with it and a battle report is on its way. (We fought an Easterling/Angmar alliance.)



Forces of Minas Tirith
Trebuchet. Engineering Captain +1 extra crewman 192
1 KoMT w/ Banner 38
10 KoMT 130
2 WoMT w/ Sheild 14
6 GFC. Shield 66
7 CG. LBow, spear 77
1 CG LBow 10

527 Points. 32 men. 8 shots.

Forces of Lothlorien
1 Stormcaller 60
3 Galadhrim Knights w/ sheilds 38
1 Galadhrim Knight w/ bow 19
2 Galadhrim Knights w/ sheild and bow 40
6 Galadhrim CG 72
8 WEW w/ Spear 64
6 WEW w/ EBow 54

347 points. 27 men. 9 Shots.

Allied from the Fellowship
Gandalf the White on Shadowfax 235
Legolas 90


Total: 1199 points. 62 men. 18 mounted. 20 shots.
Author:  spuds4ever [ Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1200 point Allied force [sbg]
Gandalf the White on horse seems a very expensive option of magic. Maybe Saruman will do better then Gandalf in this case. Also, you'll need a leader for all those cavalry. Faramir could be a good option and that would mean you don't have to have the engineer captain.
Author:  Noddwyr [ Fri Jan 28, 2011 3:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1200 point Allied force [sbg]
I have to agree with spuds here. Though faramir is impossible as thats not a legal alliance. Saruman would be a much better option for magic, I would also drop the Galadhrim Knights as you have lots of cavalry anyway. Then i would take10-12 more Wood Elves and try to max out on bows. At this points level 17 bows just isnt enough, you would be outshot by pretty much any evil army. I would also give Legolas armour and a horse to make him more of a threat and so that he can lead you cav. Then you would have some points left so you could pick up a captain of minas tirith to get some more flexible might and swap the storm caller for rumil. You could also drop the engineer captain and get some GFC to beef up your numbers.
So smt like this:
Forces of Minas Tirith
Captain w/ shield -55
Trebuchet. +1 extra crewman 117
1 KoMT w/ Banner 38
10 KoMT 130
8 GFC. Shield 88
8 CG. LBow, spear 88

516 Points. 32 men. 8 shots, 2 might

Forces of Lothlorien
Rumil 70
6 Galadhrim CG 72
21 WEW w/ Spear 168
13 WEW w/ EBow 117

419 points. 41 men. 13 Shots, 3 might

Allied
Saruman 150
Legolas w. horse and armour - 105

6 might

1198 points, 75 units, 11 might, 21(+3) s3 shots

IMHO that would be more effective.
Author:  whafrog [ Fri Jan 28, 2011 3:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1200 point Allied force [sbg]
My first instinct was your opponent could max out on models (100) and still have some major heroes and monsters. Still, you outclass him in every category...unless he has a Shade...

I have yet to play a game with siege weapons, are they that effective?
Author:  General Elessar [ Fri Jan 28, 2011 4:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1200 point Allied force [sbg]
whafrog wrote:
I have yet to play a game with siege weapons, are they that effective?


In my experience they're next to useless, but I'm interested to know why Mor-galad took a trebuchet.
Author:  spuds4ever [ Fri Jan 28, 2011 6:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1200 point Allied force [sbg]
General Elessar wrote:
whafrog wrote:
I have yet to play a game with siege weapons, are they that effective?


In my experience they're next to useless, but I'm interested to know why Mor-galad took a trebuchet.


They can be good if you're playing big points' battles like that. I used the war catapult and it was fairly effective at 400 points.
Author:  Mor-galad of Greenwood [ Sat Jan 29, 2011 6:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1200 point Allied force [sbg]
spuds4ever wrote:
General Elessar wrote:
whafrog wrote:
I have yet to play a game with siege weapons, are they that effective?


In my experience they're next to useless, but I'm interested to know why Mor-galad took a trebuchet.


They can be good if you're playing big points' battles like that. I used the war catapult and it was fairly effective at 400 points.


Thanks for the opinions and I do see that there are obvious weaknesses with our army list but let me rationalize a few of our choices. The Engineering Captain is an essential part of the Trebuchet. The ability to make a "wide of the mark" hit turn into a direct hit with Might is awesome. For that matter, being able to might up any close calls can easily make the siege weapon pay for itself inside of two turns. Additionally, we suspected that our opponents would have flying models so we would force them to make a choice between two undesirable options. Either they would have to quickly try to eliminate the crew (which would leave them susceptible to being surrounded and eliminated by our foot soldiers) or advance slowly with their rank and file while we rained missiles and chunks of building down on them unmolested.

As for Gandalf the White. I know He's a lot of points but look what he has that Saruman doesn't:
1. Strengthen will means the Stormcaller can have 5 will in two turns instead of 3;
2. Sorcerous Blast +4;
3. Cast Blinding Light;
4. Glamdring (read: 4 S5 attacks when he wins the charge.);
5. 12" movement, very handy for putting that Sorcerous Blast right where you want it;
6. Narya effectively gives him 6 wounds which makes him an obvious choice for the body guard rule.

I think that at this points bracket he's a great choice for this army. Saruman has the better range but is not nearly as versatile.

Here's a bit of context:
The entire goal of the army was to be heavy on Cavalry. From reading our opponents blog we new that his army was weak vs. horses. Neither of us have (or desire to have) a Rohan army. All the the Tower of Echelion Heros were out of the question since we were allied w/ Lothlorien. With so much up side and a mere 70 points (slightly less than 6% of the army points total) more than a mounted Saruman, Gandalf convinced us that he would win the day. Putting him on Shadowfax fit with the desire to field more horses. The presence of Shadowfax seemed to further justify the presence of 6 Galadhrim Knights. Not only do GK keep pace with the White Rider but they can also win fights (F5) while leaving the wounding to the lances.

@ Noddwyr: You made the point about putting Legolas on a horse to lead the cavalry but that begs the obvious question: who leads the archers? I guess you don't have to have a shooting hero to call a heroic shoot or move but then somebody has to be over there with them for them to call it.
In your list, you successfully wind up with 13 more figures but all of them are D3. That to me is just giving the enemy a better chance of breaking you. Typically, I agree that strength is in numbers but I do think that there is a point when you can commit to an additional 6 cavalry and expect that it will pay off.

Concerning the bow limit, we went heavy on the cavalry on the Minas Tirith side which limited the amount of bows they could bring. The the hope was that the Trebuchet would make up the difference.


The list is a compromise between a few different things: the goal we had to accomplish, the models we had painted, and what we thought worked well together.

I'm sure that a battle report will appear from our opponent on his blog sooner or later and you judge for yourselves the effectiveness.
Author:  spuds4ever [ Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1200 point Allied force [sbg]
If I'm not mistaken, the engineer captain can not use might to change a "wide of the mark" into a "Direct hit" with 1 might (or even 2). Also, Saruman does get sorcerous blast on 4+ as well as having longer range for immobilise and command. AND his 12" standfast also effects heroes which is very useful, causing a chain-reaction standfast which is great if you have a lot of heroes. IME, I have never regretted taking Saruman. Just my 2 cents though.
Author:  Mor-galad of Greenwood [ Sat Jan 29, 2011 2:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1200 point Allied force [sbg]
spuds4ever wrote:
If I'm not mistaken, the engineer captain can not use might to change a "wide of the mark" into a "Direct hit" with 1 might (or even 2). Also, Saruman does get sorcerous blast on 4+ as well as having longer range for immobilise and command. AND his 12" standfast also effects heroes which is very useful, causing a chain-reaction standfast which is great if you have a lot of heroes. IME, I have never regretted taking Saruman. Just my 2 cents though.



I ought to have said "wide of the mark" becomes "slight deviation" and slight deviation" could be turned into "Dead on!"

And I see what you are saying w/ Saruman. I guess the stand fast rule for Saruman didn't play that big of a roles since the bulk of our army either had the bodygaurd rule or courage 5. Passing courage tests is something the elves tend to do quite well.
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