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Galadhrim SBG 500pts
http://wwww.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=19110		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Noddwyr [ Mon Jul 26, 2010 3:54 am ]
Post subject:  Galadhrim SBG 500pts
So I am thinking about making a galadhrim army and this is the list i have come up with:
1 Haldir , Defender of Helm's Deep - 70
1 Rumil - 70
5 WE warriors w/ elven blade and throwing weapons - 50
4 Galadhrim w/ elf blade - 36
8 Galadhrim w. spear and shield - 80
11 Galadhrim w/ elf bow and spear - 110
7 Guards of the Galadhrim Court -84

500 points, 37 units, 11 bows, 6 might

What do you guys think? Also, if I was building up to 750 what would I get, I was thinking some knights, stormcaller, and a few extra guys.
Author:  CreatureFear [ Mon Jul 26, 2010 6:35 am ]
Post subject: 
I wouldn't bring Haldir's "defender" profile since you don't gain any of the bonuses from it (except the one when he dies which is pretty worthless). Bringing his super-shooting profile would work better and you could actually utilize it to its fullest extent (plus it would be more thematic as a sort of "defenders of Lorien" - at least that's what I do).

Otherwise looks pretty solid to me.
Author:  Haldir glory [ Mon Jul 26, 2010 7:04 am ]
Post subject: 
i agree i would get out haldir defender and another warrior and buy the normal Haldir withan elven bow and an armour
Author:  Noddwyr [ Mon Jul 26, 2010 7:05 am ]
Post subject: 
Right, thanks, good point. Here is the edited version:
1 Haldir w bow and armour- 80
1 Rumil - 70
5 WE warriors w/ elven blade and throwing weapons - 50
4 Galadhrim w/ elf blade - 36
8 Galadhrim w. spear and shield - 80
10 Galadhrim w/ elf bow and spear - 100
7 Guards of the Galadhrim Court -84

500 points, 36 units, 10 bows, 6 might
Author:  Herkine [ Mon Jul 26, 2010 9:45 pm ]
Post subject: 
I don't think you have your points cost correct. A Galadhrim with Elf Bow and Spear would be 11 points, not 10.

I would personally take a list such as this:

Haldir+Armour+Bow 80
Rumil 70
6 Guards of the Galadhrim Court 72
12 Galadhrim with Elven Blade 108
6 Galadhrim with Spear and Shield 60
11 Galadhrim with Elf Bow 110

500 points, 37 models, 11+1 bows, 6 Might
Author:  ncea [ Tue Jul 27, 2010 12:07 am ]
Post subject: 
Normal haldir is pointless... he costs 10points more and gets what? 1 extra shot with a bow? Go back to the Haldir deffenders of helms deep you still have the same amount of shots in you army just you get an extra rule and more models.

So more like this.

Haldir, deffender of helms deep 70
Rumil 70
6 Guards of the Galadhrim Court 72
12 Galadhrim with Elven Blade 108
6 Galadhrim with Spear and Shield 60
12 Galadhrim with Elf Bow 110

500 points, 38 models, 12+1 bows, 6 Might
Author:  Noddwyr [ Tue Jul 27, 2010 12:20 am ]
Post subject: 
@Herkine - Thats funny LOME tells me that they are 10 points, but I guess 11 points makes more sense. IMHO your list has too many elf blades and nowhere near enough spears.

@ncea yeah thats why I originally took the defender of helm's deep version. I am thinking I might switch back, especially if the archer with spears are 11 points.

1 Haldir , Defender, 70
1 Rumil - 70
5 WE warriors w/ elven blade and throwing weapons - 50
4 Galadhrim w/ elf blade - 36
8 Galadhrim w. spear and shield - 80
10 Galadhrim w/ elf bow and spear - 110 (assuming they are 11 points each)
7 Guards of the Galadhrim Court -84

500 points, 36 units, 12 bows(including heroes), 6 might

EDIT; Yeah LOME is wrong the rule it states on the excel file is that the elf blade can be swapped for spear or bow at no charge, which isnt the case. So 11 points it is.

Hows that?
Author:  ncea [ Tue Jul 27, 2010 12:28 am ]
Post subject: 
I think you list is fine there might be some stuff you could change but im not sure what. Btw i couldn't be botherd making my own list so i just copyed and pasted herkine's list and just put in some small changes.
Author:  Noddwyr [ Tue Jul 27, 2010 12:31 am ]
Post subject: 
Hahah yeah I could tell. Thanks for the help.
Author:  CreatureFear [ Tue Jul 27, 2010 4:23 am ]
Post subject: 
@ ncea,
1 more shot for 5 more points is hardly “pointless”. Also, if you go with the Defender profile you do not get the same amount of shots in your army – you get one less. You can drop the armor and save 5. I've never really needed it, though I buy it if there's anything left over.

What's “pointless” is saving 5 points - losing Haldir's extra shot for a profile that is only useful in specific armies (ie. no this one) and when the model is dead.

@Noddwyr,
According to LK's army builder (and GW's own OL material) you were correct earlier – the last list you posted has 10 points left over...
Author:  Noddwyr [ Tue Jul 27, 2010 4:54 am ]
Post subject: 
Thanks for clarifying that for me CreatureFear. In that case I will think I like this list:

1 Haldir w bow and armour- 80
1 Rumil - 70
5 WE warriors w/ elven blade and throwing weapons - 50
4 Galadhrim w/ elf blade - 36
8 Galadhrim w. spear and shield - 80
10 Galadhrim w/ elf bow and spear - 100
7 Guards of the Galadhrim Court -84

500 points, 36 units, 10 bows + 2 shots, 6 might

Any other criticisms and comments? Also, if I was building up to 750 what would I get, I was thinking some knights, stormcaller, and a few extra guys. Any suggestions?
Author:  whafrog [ Tue Jul 27, 2010 6:27 am ]
Post subject: 
Just curious how you're modeling the bowmen with spears?

As for the army, looks good to me, as does your expansion plans. Or you could replace Haldir for scary Galadriel and a bunch more warriors.
Author:  Noddwyr [ Tue Jul 27, 2010 6:40 am ]
Post subject: 
whafrog wrote:
Just curious how you're modeling the bowmen with spears?

As for the army, looks good to me, as does your expansion plans. Or you could replace Haldir for scary Galadriel and a bunch more warriors.


Well the obvious route would be to put some spears on their backs somewhere by the quiver, but I was thinking that i might go a little more elaborate and have a couple holding their spears in the air while their bows are in the other hand just for epic effect, maybe even some in the process of pulling the spear out. what do you think? have any ideas?

Galadriel, would definitely be a good addition. I will have a look into an army based around her, maybe some knights for extra speed.

Maybe something like this:

Galadriel, Scary version 125
Rumil 70
8 WE warriors w/ elven blade and throwing weapons - 80
5 Galadhrim w/ elf blade - 45
10 Galadhrim w. spear and shield - 100
11 Galadhrim w/ elf bow and spear - 110
10 Guards of the Galadhrim Court -120
5 Galadhrim Knights w/ shield and bow 100

750 points, 51 units, 16 bows, 6 might

Also I was just curious as i have never tried it before, how hard do you think it would be to play an all galadhrim knight force? say 23 knights, and a haldir in 500 pts.
Author:  whafrog [ Tue Jul 27, 2010 12:22 pm ]
Post subject: 
Pretty good, but now that I think about it, your WE should have spears instead of blades. A WE spear can be used for shielding, which makes them pretty handy for holding tactical positions.
Author:  Beowulf03809 [ Tue Jul 27, 2010 3:13 pm ]
Post subject: 
Noddwyr wrote:
whafrog wrote:
Just curious how you're modeling the bowmen with spears?

As for the army, looks good to me, as does your expansion plans. Or you could replace Haldir for scary Galadriel and a bunch more warriors.


Well the obvious route would be to put some spears on their backs somewhere by the quiver, but I was thinking that i might go a little more elaborate and have a couple holding their spears in the air while their bows are in the other hand just for epic effect, maybe even some in the process of pulling the spear out. what do you think? have any ideas?


I'll try to post a couple pics this evening of some WE mods I did. They represent WE Spear models with Throwing Daggers. I believe I ended up using WE Bowmen as the base model for all of them because they had the most dynamic two-arm actions. Some are holding the spear in alternate hands while they have a dagger in their right hand. For another I trimmed off the arrows and drilled out the large quiver a little and placed a spear extending from that, while giving the warrior a dagger in each hand.

The WE models are fun to work with for conversions and have good options for WYSIWYG. My biggest complaint is that GW doesn't offer any decent bitz options for almost any force. With Warg Riders you get a good collection of weapon and shield options that can dress up an Orc force just as well as the Warg Riders they were intended for, but that's it. For the Morannon Orc you get a lot of loose shields so you can mix things up a little and get even more variety with some arm repositioning too. But there aren't many others I can think of. For example, with WEs, if they gave us a sprue of options such as spears, blades and bows (both in hands and loose) and some hands with daggers (so I didn't need to amputate a bunch of Numenoreans :shock: :oops: ) it would go a long way to having more variety to an army and help with GW's professed goal of WYSIWYG armies.

whafrog wrote:
Pretty good, but now that I think about it, your WE should have spears instead of blades. A WE spear can be used for shielding, which makes them pretty handy for holding tactical positions.


I agree. I find Elf Blades very useful for my Wood Elf army, but you already have a few in your Galadhrim. The WE Spears would let them support (nice option for them to stand behind the armored cousins) and also give them a little more staying power if they are caught in the open alone (a shielding WE can often survive a few turns defensively while waiting for support to show up).
Author:  Noddwyr [ Tue Jul 27, 2010 6:55 pm ]
Post subject: 
Thanks guys, your comments are helpful as usual. I have rejigged the 500 pt list basically just giving spear to the WE.

1 Haldir w bow and armour- 80
1 Rumil - 70
5 WE warriors w/ spear and throwing weapons - 50
4 Galadhrim w/ elf blade - 36
8 Galadhrim w. spear and shield - 80
10 Galadhrim w/ elf bow and spear - 100
7 Guards of the Galadhrim Court -84

500 points, 36 units, 10 bows + 2 shots, 6 might

THough I was thinking of adding some more hero power to this list, simply because it would be pretty easy for Rumil and Haldir to get transfixed seeing as they only have a point of will each.

1 Rumil - 70
1 glorfindel, Lord of the West 140
4 Galadhrim w/ elf blade - 36
8 Galadhrim w. spear and shield - 80
9 Galadhrim w/ elf bow and spear - 90
7 Guards of the Galadhrim Court -84

500 points, 29 units, 9 bows, 6 might
I could also swap him out with scary galadreil,, but adding Glorfy might have been too much, but maybe dropping the woodelves from the first list and ading captain or storm caller.
What do you guys think???



@Beowulf, I am excited to see your conversions and I agree extra bits would be really useful in terms of customizing you army, and I wish GW included some. Though I suppose it would take some of the fun out of converting.
Author:  ncea [ Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:52 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
@ ncea,
1 more shot for 5 more points is hardly “pointless”. Also, if you go with the Defender profile you do not get the same amount of shots in your army – you get one less. You can drop the armor and save 5. I've never really needed it, though I buy it if there's anything left over.

What's “pointless” is saving 5 points - losing Haldir's extra shot for a profile that is only useful in specific armies (ie. no this one) and when the model is dead.


He doesn't get 1 more shot for 5 points its 10 points.

E.g:

Haldir- bow,armour 80
Haldir, deffenders of helms deep 70

as you can see... normal haldir costs 10 points more they both have the same stats apart from their special rules. So normal haldirs special rule is 10 points and Haldir, deffender of helms deep gets his special rule for free.

Note: there speical rules probally cost different points but when comparing them thats what you get.

Also if you compare my list with herkine's list they are the same except my list gets 1 more numbers and a special rule that haldir gets when he dies(yes i agree the rules stupid but its still a rule).I would only get normal Haldir if im not planning on giving him armour but apart from that i would stick with Haldir, deffender of helms deep

Also if you still don't understand what im saying then heres another example:

Noddwyr's list:

1 Haldir w bow and armour- 80
1 Rumil - 70
5 WE warriors w/ spear and throwing weapons - 50
4 Galadhrim w/ elf blade - 36
8 Galadhrim w. spear and shield - 80
10 Galadhrim w/ elf bow and spear - 100
7 Guards of the Galadhrim Court -84

500 points, 36 units, 10 bows + 2 shots, 6 might

My list:

1 Haldir deffender of helms deep - 70
1 Rumil - 70
5 WE warriors w/ spear and throwing weapons - 50
4 Galadhrim w/ elf blade - 36
8 Galadhrim w. spear and shield - 80
11 Galadhrim w/ elf bow and spear - 110
7 Guards of the Galadhrim Court -84

500 points, 37 units, 11 bows + 1 shots, 6 might

Now My list costs the same amount of points same amount of might and bows. But gets another special rule and an extra unit.Btw i just copyed and pasted agian.

Noddwyr I like your 750point list but maybe change the wood elves with elven blade to wood elves with wood elf spear(which has already been said). Atleast this time you didnt include haldir so you didnt have to make the choice of which type of haldir..
Author:  Noddwyr [ Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:18 am ]
Post subject: 
Thanks ncea. Now that you have explained it the way you did I see what you mean. I like your list and as such have made the appropriate changes to mine, which means i am taking defender haldir as per my original idea. And yeah I know about the wood elves with spears, was just too lazy to edit it here. But thanks.

As posted above i was thinking about throwing glorfy into the mix, though am not sure. He would a good option to lead the knights in the 750 pts list.

You know what really gets me, Lothlorien army can have Knights, aka elves on horses, however none of the heros have horse as an option. You have to ally in someone from another faction to have leader, which is silly since the monkey twins can have horses but no normal warriors in the rivendell army can, so can gil-galad, but no one else in his army can. WHY????
Anyway, thats my rant.
Author:  ncea [ Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:22 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
You know what really gets me, Lothlorien army can have Knights, aka elves on horses, however none of the heros have horse as an option. You have to ally in someone from another faction to have leader, which is silly since the monkey twins can have horses but no normal warriors in the rivendell army can, so can gil-galad, but no one else in his army can. WHY????
Anyway, thats my rant


Yeah that sucks... Atleast all the elf lists can ally with each other so that you can actually field an elf hero with a horse.
Author:  CreatureFear [ Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:23 am ]
Post subject: 
ncea wrote:
Haldir- bow,armour 80
Haldir, deffenders of helms deep 70

as you can see... normal haldir costs 10 points more they both have the same stats apart from their special rules. So normal haldirs special rule is 10 points and Haldir, deffender of helms deep gets his special rule for free.


No,
Haldir's rule is 5 points - his armour is another 5. :wink:
(Haldir with nothing is 70 points. Haldir with a bow, able to use his two shot ability, is 75 points - thus his ability is 5 points. Haldir with armour? another 5 points, but this has nothing to do with his two shots.)

The lists you provided are practically the same - so you increased the list to 37?
The break point is the same and the list becomes completely unthematic - but - you're right, Haldir gets a special rule.

What I'd do is drop the 5 guys with Throwing Weapons and do this:
Haldir with bow-75
Rumil-70
Guard of the Galadhrim Court x7
Galadhrim Warrior with Elven Blade x9
Galadhrim Warrior with Shield and Spear x8
Galadhrim Warrior with Spear and Elf Bow x11
500 points, 37 units, 11 bows +2 shots, 6 Might

Then all models have at least 4D, one more shot than the last list you posted above and more thematic (at the loss of 5 flimsy Elves with Throwing Weapons). That's just me though...
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