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Gondor, Moria, now Khand, 500 pts (SBG)
http://wwww.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=18530		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Jamros [ Sat May 22, 2010 4:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Gondor, Moria, now Khand, 500 pts (SBG)
Hello,

I need help with two army lists, the first of which, Moria, I have ready for review, and the latter of which, Gondor, I am completely hopeless on.

Moria:

Durburz, 60 pts
Moria Goblin Drum, 100 pts
Moria Goblin Warrior (x36), 180 pts
Cave Troll (x2), 160 pts
Total: 41 models, 500 pts

I'm concerned that there is not enough diversity in the army, as well as a lack of numbers, which I believe should be higher for success with a Moria army (but I'm a total n00b at gaming). I don't want to spend too much more cash on it, but I've been thinking about trading out one of the cave trolls for a Goblin Captain w/ bow and some Prowlers. Any suggestions or is it fine for 500 points?

Now for the Gondor army. I really, really want it to revolve around Boromir and Faramir, based on the army from the TT Osgiliath scene, but I'm stuck as to what to fill in the rest of the army with. I'd like Faramir to be a ranger, and Boromir to be armored, but I can be flexible. I have WoMT, KoMT, a MT Command, and I'm getting some rangers soon, as well as some other heroes. Can anyone help put together a force for me?
Author:  Longbottom Leaf [ Sat May 22, 2010 6:07 pm ]
Post subject: 
I'd swap out the Goblin Drum for a Shaman and some Prowlers. The Fury spell is very important and the Prowlers add some good offensive capabilities. :)
Author:  The_Dragon_of_Moria [ Sat May 22, 2010 6:42 pm ]
Post subject: 
Longbottom Leaf wrote:
I'd swap out the Goblin Drum for a Shaman and some Prowlers. The Fury spell is very important and the Prowlers add some good offensive capabilities. :)


I agree with Josh here. I normaly only take the Goblin Drums in 700+ point games. I have a relatively large Moria force with Dol Gulder allies and tend to favour another 5 goblins, a Warg Chieften and another 100pts of 4 giant spiders over some drums.
Author:  Jamros [ Sat May 22, 2010 6:59 pm ]
Post subject: 
The drum is not worth it in this amount of points? Does anyone else agree that I should replace the drum with a shaman and some prowlers?
Author:  Azrael [ Sat May 22, 2010 8:29 pm ]
Post subject: 
Yes i'd either swap the drum or one troll. In my opinion one troll will do it.
Author:  General Elessar [ Sat May 22, 2010 8:36 pm ]
Post subject: 
I agree, swap the Goblin Drum. Swapping it for a Shaman and some Prowlers seems the best idea.
Author:  theavenger001 [ Sat May 22, 2010 8:48 pm ]
Post subject: 
Yes, switch the drum for a shaman and prowlers. I would also recommend getting a captain as right now you have 3 might, with the captain and shaman you will have 6. It is important to have priority or to call a heroic move for your prowlers, their throwing weapons at 4+ are actually quite good. It also stops the enemy from using their extra bit of movement to stay just out of charging range, if they stay their charging length away you'll pelt them with daggers, if they get close enough that you can charge them you pelt them with daggers, then mob them. :twisted:
It is also nice if you can have a captain and troll in the same fight, call a heroic fight and use the trolls fight and strength to bash the enemy's, then charge and bash more!

I also like that you have two trolls, that way if you have them behind your shield wall (which I definitely recommend) you'll get at least one into combat, the other might have died from bow-fire or he may not have. If they do focus on your trolls then all the better, you have only lost one-maybe two figures to his bunch from your return fire. Or if he focuses on your troops then you will have two full strength trolls ready to rip through his lines!
Durburz backed up by the shaman with fury is a good way to make sure that your goblins won't flee, even if the shaman is engaged fury will still work, and with Durburz's extended stand fast if he is not charged that should easily cover your lines.

A tactic that you should look out for though is the opponent trying to break you and get fury off, then hope your trolls run away. He would probably feed the trolls a warrior each turn and then focus on your troops, then with the trolls low courage if he can get them to take a courage test they have a pretty good chance of fleeing. That is why I suggest baby-sitting the trolls with a captain, if he feeds the troll a single warrior then heroic combat into another fight using the troll and captain, he'll think twice about doing that again.

Whew, long post, I hope I helped.
:)
Author:  Jamros [ Sat May 22, 2010 9:33 pm ]
Post subject: 
Everyone seems adament about getting rid of the drum. I'm still keeping it as an option as its the cheapest option cash wise and will finish off the army with one purchase of the 100 pts. Besides, in the Warhosts booklet, the predecessor to LoMe, one of the themed suggestions for Moria involved Durburz, Goblin warriors, two cave trolls, and a drum, so somebody at GW used that list. ;) But then again you guys are probably smarter than GW. :)

Here's what we have now:

Durburz, 60 pts
Moria Goblin Shaman, 45 pts
Moria Goblin Warrior (x36) 180 pts
Cave Troll (x2, now w/ troll chains), 170 pts
Moria Goblin Prowler, (x4), 28 points
Total: 44 models, 483 points

I've got points leftover that I suppose could be filled with another blister of prowlers...and another $15 :(...man I'm such a cheapo :)

Or, I could replace the Prowlers with a Captain w/bow, and use the strategy theavenger001 mentioned with the cave trolls.

Durburz, 60 pts
Moria Goblin Shaman, 45 pts
Moria Goblin Captain w/ bow, 40 points
Moria Goblin Warrior (x36) 180 pts
Cave Troll (x2, now w/ troll chains), 170 pts
Total: 495 pts, 41 models

I also have the stats for Druzhag Beastcaller, but I don't like the model nor do I want to go down the path of employeeing wild beasts. Still, its out there, and I'd certainly be willing to listen to any suggestions, ecspecially if involved wargs. :)

Any suggestions for Gondor, btw?
Author:  Longbottom Leaf [ Sat May 22, 2010 9:53 pm ]
Post subject: 
I'd probably drop the Troll Chains for 2 more Goblins. Numbers are everything for Moria, so adding even more is always a positive. :)
Author:  Jamros [ Sat May 22, 2010 9:57 pm ]
Post subject: 
What is a reasonable size for a 500 point army anyway? How many models?
Author:  MuslimRohirrim [ Sun May 23, 2010 12:29 am ]
Post subject: 
the size limit of games size up to 500pts is 50 models. I'd say that at 500 points game races that depends on swarming strategy, as in the case of Moria, should hit this number or be as close as possible to it.

I also am with dropping the drum (probably belongs to bigger games as stated above). the new list is better I think and I like the Troll chain though some argue that it's not worth it. I wouldn't suggest adding another captain to this list, so I'm afraid you'll have to get the extra blister :P .

haven't tried druzhag yet and can't give you much about Gondor either sorry
Author:  Jamros [ Sun May 23, 2010 1:15 am ]
Post subject: 
So, this is what you're suggesting?

Durburz, 60 pts
Moria Goblin Shaman, 45 pts
Moria Goblin Warrior (x36) 180 pts
Cave Troll (x2, w/ troll chains), 170 pts
Moria Goblin Prowler, (x6), 42 points
Total: 497 points, 46 models

That looks like a great list, but it will literally cost $42, instead of the mere $15 with a drum (btw, I currently own Durburz, the warriors, and the cave trolls, everything else is yet to be purchased). I like it, but I don't like the price tag, in other words. Well, I'll wait and see what everyone has to say about it.

C'mon...is there not one person in favor of the $15 drum? :wink:

This is what I've struggled to come up with for Gondor:

Boromir, CotWT, no banner, w/shield, 180 pts
Faramir w/bow, 75 pts
Warrior of Minas Tirith (x20, 8/shield, 8 /sheild+spear, 4/bow) 168 pts
Ranger of Gondor (x8 ), 64 pts
Knight of Minas Tirith, 13 pts
Total: 500 points, 31 models

Not many models, and no banner. In addition, the knight is all alone, but the points value meant that I could've added one more warrior, and then be left with points leftover, whereas the Knight filled up all the space. Now we've got something to work on for Gondor, comments, critiques, and blatantly harsh criticism needed! :)
Author:  Longbottom Leaf [ Sun May 23, 2010 1:26 am ]
Post subject: 
Drop Boromir for a captain and more warriors. Also, give Faramir a horse and have him lead a contingent of knights, somewhere between 4 or 6 sounds good. As for the Goblins, the drum shouldn't really be added in untill higher points values, unless you really want it. The Shaman and the Prowlers would be great, and I would definitley take them.
Author:  Jamros [ Sun May 23, 2010 1:51 am ]
Post subject: 
I think I'm gonna go ahead and drop the drum, no one is defending it, so it must truly be a waste in a 500 pt game.

Boromir's my favorite character, though...
The funny thing about your comment, Longbottom Leaf, is that I actually have Faramir mounted as well as a contingent of 7 knights, one with a banner, as well as a captain and more warriors, so your suggestion would be cheaper to do, and I actually do not own the Boromir, Faramir, or Ranger miniatures I presented on that list, so at this point, I'm willing to take as many different suggestions as possible before I make any purchases. I would like to include Boromir though, simply because he's my favorite character. I'm trying to go for something along the lines of the army featured in the Two Towers Osgiliath scene, but at 500 points, I know I'm going to have to be flexible.

Here's a list I made with miniatures I actually own:

Faramir w/Heavy Armor and Horse, 80 points
Captain of Gondor w/shield, 55 points
Knight of Minas Tirith (x5), 78 pts
WoMT, (x24, 1/banner, 7/shield, 8/spear+shield, 8/bow), 224pts
Total: 30 models, 498 pts

Any better? Too few models? Should I just forget about Boromir?
Author:  MuslimRohirrim [ Sun May 23, 2010 2:46 am ]
Post subject: 
I think something is wrong in your Gondor list calulation.

6x KoMT = 78 points not 5x

anyway your numbers add to 437, and in such case you can add more units. I think fountain guards could make an excellent addition to your list.

you could go like this:

Faramir w/Heavy Armor and Horse, 80 points
Captain of Gondor w/shield, 55 points
Knight of Minas Tirith w/shield (x6), 84 pts
WoMT, (x23, 1/banner, 7/shield, 7/spear+shield, 8/bow), 215pts
Guard of The Fountain Court w/shield (x6), 66pts

Total: 37 models, 500 pts

hope my calculations are right
Author:  Jamros [ Sun May 23, 2010 3:29 am ]
Post subject: 
Whoa, how the heck were my calculations so off...?

I would like to restrict my Gondor army to miniatures I already have, to make up for the money being spent on Moria, and sadly I do not have Guards of the Fountain Court. :( I might end up going with that list, but I'm still trying to go the cheapo route while I can. :wink:

I was wondering also where you got the shield option. I have the rulebook, and though my KoMT are modeled with shields, I have no option for them. Also, aren't shields essentially useless when fighting atop a mount?

Alright, so we've got 437 points. Would it be redundant to add a KoMT w/banner, or more WoMT?
Author:  Shadowswarm [ Sun May 23, 2010 5:24 am ]
Post subject: 
ok im just going to talk about the drum for a bit (anything else and this post will be really long)

the drum is really good, but its just its price tag, if you get the drum and the 2 trolls then you wont have enough warriors... so if you drop the drum then you can get another 20 goblins! and at this pt level goblins NEED to have big numbers...

although... i have used the drum at 500pts before and it can work well at this pt limit

an example list
durburz
shaman
drum
troll
43 goblins

500pts 48models
this list has a ton of models while still keeping the drum and a troll
this list does lack the extra might from the captian and the other troll.... and would be in huge trouble if the enemy has cavalry that can flank and kill the drummers...

its really a matter of what kind of force you are going to use (im going to try using a list that has 3 trolls just for the fun of it)

so the other comments were good, it depends on what you want in your list and the trade of you make for that (i got a drum by sacrificing might and a troll...)
Author:  General Elessar [ Sun May 23, 2010 11:25 am ]
Post subject: 
For you're Gondor army, I'd swap the Warrior of Minas Tirith with a banner for a Knight of Minas Tirith with a banner, simply so you can get him to where he'd needed quicker.
Author:  MuslimRohirrim [ Sun May 23, 2010 1:10 pm ]
Post subject: 
I don't have rulebook with me right now but I am pretty sure they have the shield option. sorry if I am mistaken.

now you have 53pts more to spend. it could get you like 1 KoMT and about 5 Warriors more. if you want to stick to what you have then by all means put in the KoMT banner along with couple of warriors more.

as for shields for KoMT, yes you can't use shielding when mounted but you still get the extra defense point. This point won't make a difference against the evil 2S bows, but it will sure make a difference in CC against 3S warriors, which are most of the standard warriors in the game, as they'll only wound you on 6s then.

Make sure to resist the premature thrust of cavalry, keep your knights behind the shielded warriors or use terrain to hide them from archers and spring them out once close enough to charge and when warriors are close enough to provide timely support.
Author:  Jamros [ Sun May 23, 2010 6:08 pm ]
Post subject: 
As I mentioned before, I'm a noob at gaming, but I really think my last Moria list looks the best:

Durburz, 60 points
Moria Goblin Shaman, 45 points
Moria Goblin Warrior, (x36, bow, spear, or shield), 180 points
Cave Troll (x2, w/Chains), 170 points
Moria Goblin Prowlers (w/ two handed weapons), 42 points
Total: 497 points, 46 models

Four models under the limit, and it has a good combination of numbers and strength. I'm pleased with it :)

Now my revised Gondor list, commentary requested:

Faramir w/Heavy Armor and Horse, 80 points
Captain of Gondor w/Shield, 55 pts
WoMT, (x27, banner, shield, shield and spear, or bow), 248 pts
KoMT, (x 7, banner), 116
Total: 499 points, 36 models

My Knights of Minas Tirith minis are modeled with shields, but they do not have an option for them in the Rules Manuel I have (MoM). For that reason, based on WYSIWYG, there may be a points discrepancy.

Please, comments are continually welcome. I want to make these armies as good as possible. :)
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