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Dragon and Balrog
http://wwww.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=17967		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Queen Berúthiel [ Tue Mar 30, 2010 1:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Dragon and Balrog
Does anybody know any tactics in beating a dragon and a balrog? (not in the same battle) I use a dwarf army dont know what list i shall use yet

Thanks ahead
Author:  thewhitehand [ Tue Mar 30, 2010 2:23 pm ]
Post subject: 
in SBG? well basically, they are near impossible to kill. really the best you can do is to just tie it up with one model a turn, then get on with defeating the rest of your opponents army or do whatever objective there is
Author:  Shadowswarm [ Tue Mar 30, 2010 2:48 pm ]
Post subject: 
thewhitehand is right, both models are super hard to kill (unless you can get a hero against the d7 dragon... then you can wound and hopfully itll run... if its d9 and flying then ) :shock: :o

so unless you have gil galad to kill the dragon (balrog has no counter....) you cant kill them unless you opponent has too much fun and lets them wade into the middle of your army where you can surround them....

if your opponent usess them well (having the lesser warriors stop them from getting surrounded etc) then you only option is to feed them and destroy the army....


super hard models like the balrog/dragon/sauron will almost always be the last ppl left standing if their army is destroyed...
Author:  General Elessar [ Tue Mar 30, 2010 3:54 pm ]
Post subject: 
I think everything to say has already been said...
Author:  Queen Berúthiel [ Tue Mar 30, 2010 4:53 pm ]
Post subject: 
thx for the advice guys
Author:  General Haar [ Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:53 am ]
Post subject: 
I would definitely try playing a scenario instead of a "last man standing" match. Something like Domination would put you on more even ground.

But if not...
The Balrog has no might. So if he doesn't roll a 6 to win the fight and you have plenty of models surrounding it, you may stand a chance. However, this will probably cost you many casualties depending on how the dice go. I would suggest using plenty of models that have the Bodyguard rule, so you are sure to always charge the Terror-causing model - Khazad Guard would be the best, with their strength 4 and two-handed weapons. Just be sure to use plenty of hand weapons when it comes to winning the fight.

The Dragon would depend on how it's built. Tough Hide makes it a beast. The best you can hope to do is surround it and cause enough wounds to make it fail a courage test. He''s a bit tougher to take down because he has a store of Might and Will.

Again, I always suggest scenario games when it comes to dealing with the big baddies. I find that they aren't so fun to play with or against if it's a "kill them all" match. They just become a big walking annoyance, and the game becomes less fun and more of a chore.
Author:  spuds4ever [ Wed Mar 31, 2010 9:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Dragon and Balrog
Queen Berúthiel wrote:
Does anybody know any tactics in beating a dragon and a balrog? (not in the same battle) I use a dwarf army dont know what list i shall use yet

Thanks ahead


I think Rumil would be very good to take against both as he makes them re-roll 6s once.
Author:  senoja [ Mon Jun 21, 2010 1:23 pm ]
Post subject: 
both can be dealth with in the same way on a previous post im unsure who mentioned artiller that is by far the best way unless ure playing an unexpierienced monster player
Author:  imrail [ Tue Jun 22, 2010 7:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Dragon and Balrog
spuds4ever wrote:
Queen Berúthiel wrote:
Does anybody know any tactics in beating a dragon and a balrog? (not in the same battle) I use a dwarf army dont know what list i shall use yet

Thanks ahead


I think Rumil would be very good to take against both as he makes them re-roll 6s once.


Again Rumil :lol:
But not every army uses Rumil,
and keep in mind the he is playing with his dwarf army.
Author:  spuds4ever [ Tue Jun 22, 2010 3:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dragon and Balrog
imrail wrote:
spuds4ever wrote:
Queen Berúthiel wrote:
Does anybody know any tactics in beating a dragon and a balrog? (not in the same battle) I use a dwarf army dont know what list i shall use yet

Thanks ahead


I think Rumil would be very good to take against both as he makes them re-roll 6s once.


Again Rumil :lol:
But not every army uses Rumil,
and keep in mind the he is playing with his dwarf army.


He could always ally him in from the hire-a-rumil , slogan "Are you having problems with uber-monsters? Are they butchering your armies? Well then be butchered no more because here you can hire a Rumil!"
Author:  Tackitis [ Wed Jun 23, 2010 12:01 am ]
Post subject: 
Balrogs are a bit Intimidating but you can get through em.

The wizards can deal with the Balrog it just take a lot of time and wearing it down through attrition, just keep throwing spell after spell at it and eventually it will run out of will.
And since wizards are assessable to dwarfs so that my way of getting rid of them. Galadriel is another option but she tends not to fit the theme to well.


Dragons I'm no longer scared of as their are a few tricks to taking it out.
Remember the dragon has to take a courage test every time it's wounded so if they don't take toughen hide, just shooting it can be fairly effective (dwarf bows are good here).

Option number 2, Break the army. A Dragon has a fairly average courage (4 I think), so it's weakness will become the rest of the army. Kill the Gobo's and laugh as the dragon fails it's courage test and runs of the board.

Finally (and my personal favorite) Beat it in a fight. And their is one character that costs half the amount of Dragon but can still keep up with it.
Gwarhir, The Lord of eagles. He can move 12" like the dragon, has a high courage so it can go into combat, but most importantly a Fight value of 8.
One point higher than the dragon, get Gwarhir and a few khazard guard into the dragon and I can guarantee it wont be around for very long.
Author:  imrail [ Wed Jun 23, 2010 7:47 am ]
Post subject: 
But there are a few topics about beating a Balrog, Dragon, Sauron, Mumak and other big creatures.
If you search for them, you might get some more tips.
Author:  spuds4ever [ Wed Jun 23, 2010 6:34 pm ]
Post subject: 
Only problem is with Gwaihir... Dragon+fire ball+Gwaihir=very scorched KFC+some additional feathers.
Author:  Tackitis [ Wed Jun 23, 2010 9:13 pm ]
Post subject: 
If they take the fire ball they sacrifice something else such as their maneuverability allowing Gwarhir to move where it pleases or their defensive aspects in which the dragon becomes a magnet to every archer on the table.

Nice KFC quote though.
Author:  Shadowswarm [ Thu Jun 24, 2010 1:39 am ]
Post subject: 
gil-galad is good at killing the dragon. and the dragon has only 3 will, so use magic and attrition
Author:  spuds4ever [ Thu Jun 24, 2010 5:43 pm ]
Post subject: 
Shadowswarm wrote:
gil-galad is good at killing the dragon. and the dragon has only 3 will, so use magic and attrition


Ahh... how I love Gil-galad. Magic would work as well as Shadowswarm said. If he puts a big wall in front of the dragon, just sorcerous blast the gobbos (which I'm guessing he's using) into the dragon. I just love the idea of launching puny gobbos into a huge dragon :-D .
Author:  Beowulf03809 [ Thu Jun 24, 2010 6:46 pm ]
Post subject: 
At the 2008 GT in Baltimore, MD there was an army that had a Dragon at its core. Amazing looking army, with lightup firebreath on the dragon, display board that was a great dio, etc. The army was painted wonderfully with lots of custom work too. The player ack'd that he was mostly there for the "best looking army" shot and he won it, but his force played pretty well most of the time too. Except for one scenario against one of my friends. On the second turn the Dragon took a single wound from some lucky shooting. Rolled very low Courage and proceeded to fly away leaving a fraction of the army left. It ended quick from there.

As noted, Tough Hide on a Dragon is probably the only time to get too concerned, as long as you have some strong forces to score Wounds. But be sure to ACT afraid. Talk about how deadly the Dragon is, how much you hope to avoid melee with it, etc. Try to get your opponent cocky enough to put the Dragon in a risky spot. Then thump it. 8)

Also as said above and other threads, in SBG the Balrog is just a mess to try to take out. It can be done, but you almost have to build around that goal and you have to be careful of loosing track of the goal of the scenario while taking it on. Generally, the Dark Lord and the Balrog should be "managed" without too much worry about actually killing them (unless you're playing a To The Death scenario). :roll:
Author:  Mouth-of-Sauron [ Thu Jun 24, 2010 8:42 pm ]
Post subject: 
Heh, I was somewhat afraid of Dragons, but when I have a game against it. Strangely my friend shifted from Uruks, to a Dragon with Goblins and it kinda "shocked" me , but with numbers I took it down... Sheer weight of numbers i tell ya.... At first it enjoyed a lot of maiming and killing but eventually Dragon lost the grip and started to whittle down along with his might, will and fate.

Don´t know about Balrog though, with a scenario these two shouldn't be a problem...
Author:  ncea [ Fri Jun 25, 2010 12:25 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
The wizards can deal with the Balrog it just take a lot of time and wearing it down through attrition, just keep throwing spell after spell at it and eventually it will run out of will.
And since wizards are assessable to dwarfs so that my way of getting rid of them. Galadriel is another option but she tends not to fit the theme to well.


I dunno.. but you guys might have forgotten that dragons have resistance to magic.
Author:  Tackitis [ Fri Jun 25, 2010 6:12 am ]
Post subject: 
The Balrog and the Dragon can only use their resistant to magic Special Rule once all of their will points have run out.

So I'm happy to let you resist with one dice if it means you have no will left to pass courage tests with.
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