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 Post subject: Evil Dwaves - New interesting faction or no-go?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:59 am 
Kinsman
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While thinking about new stuff for a Last Alliance expansion, I remembered that Tolkient wrote about the war, that every species had members on both sides. So there were in fact evil dwarves but we know very little about them.

I think the concept of evil dwarves is really interesting and like their version in WHFB a lot. Althought of course they do not fit into Middleearth.

I also know that adding them, might be quite a stretch for GW to pull off with the rights they have.

But how do you imagine they could be like? Obviously the most common tropes for evil dwarves from other media, cannot be applied because they don't match with Tolkiens world - e.g. heavy industry, having slaves, gunpowder, evil magic, crazy warmachines etc.

Maybe they are even less mobile but have warmachines and crossbows? Or they go the opposite way and are very mobile (for dwarves) and have no heavy armour, etc?

Or do you think the whole idea of evil dwarves as faction is a no-go?

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 Post subject: Re: Evil Dwaves - New interesting faction or no-go?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2022 9:11 pm 
Wayfarer
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It's an interesting thought, and indeed there were Dwarves that fought alongside the orcs of Sauron. However, this would have been motivated through greed. There were some dwarves, such as those of Durin, that refused to fight for Sauron out of principle, or loyalty to the west, or because of past treachories by Sauron, but there were dwarves that were less scrupulous and much more driven by greed.

So I think you should look at it from that perspective. If the dwarves were driven by greed and the lust for gold, then I think that be very similar to other dwarves. I don't think they would be less or more mobile, but I can imagine they might fashion other types of weapons of war, such a crossbows. They are master craftsmen after all. I don't think they would use evil magic, but I also think they wouldn't say no to having an orc shaman or two with them to protect them long enough so that they can collect on their gold payment.

I think that's how you'd have to think about an evil dwarf faction. They're motivated by greed and will fight for the highest bidder for the lowest cost. Some of them might have heavy dwarven armour, some might have light dwarven armour. Some might have bows, some might have crossbows. Very much a mercenary company rather than full on evil.

At least that's my thoughts on the subject. So feel free to discard as necessary
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 Post subject: Re: Evil Dwaves - New interesting faction or no-go?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:25 am 
Kinsman
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CptMaleck wrote:
It's an interesting thought, and indeed there were Dwarves that fought alongside the orcs of Sauron. However, this would have been motivated through greed. There were some dwarves, such as those of Durin, that refused to fight for Sauron out of principle, or loyalty to the west, or because of past treachories by Sauron, but there were dwarves that were less scrupulous and much more driven by greed.

So I think you should look at it from that perspective. If the dwarves were driven by greed and the lust for gold, then I think that be very similar to other dwarves. I don't think they would be less or more mobile, but I can imagine they might fashion other types of weapons of war, such a crossbows. They are master craftsmen after all. I don't think they would use evil magic, but I also think they wouldn't say no to having an orc shaman or two with them to protect them long enough so that they can collect on their gold payment.

I think that's how you'd have to think about an evil dwarf faction. They're motivated by greed and will fight for the highest bidder for the lowest cost. Some of them might have heavy dwarven armour, some might have light dwarven armour. Some might have bows, some might have crossbows. Very much a mercenary company rather than full on evil.

At least that's my thoughts on the subject. So feel free to discard as necessary


Yeah you are totally right with the greed as motivation for dwarves and not just being evil.

Also agree with the rest of your post.
Just would like see to see evil dwarves to be visually and playstyle like differently from the rest and not just have have evil Khazad-Dum or Iron Hills.

I like the idea of mercenary dwaves in that sense - similar to why Khand is on the evil side.

Actually it might be enough to have evil dwarves as extension of Barad-Dur (so them appearing only during the 2nd age) and not a full faction.

They could give crossbows and another heavy front unit to barad-dur (which lacks a lot of the options 3rd age Mordor has). Or even evil goat riders?

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 Post subject: Re: Evil Dwaves - New interesting faction or no-go?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2022 4:25 am 
Loremaster
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Evil Dwarves - gets the brain thinking. As an army or a rogue battle company? I can see converting dwarf rangers, painting them in darker colors and giving them all blood red beards. Evil blades and axes. As I said. Gets one thinking.

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