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 Post subject: Australian Golden Demon 2008. Perhaps I should have entered.
PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 5:52 am 
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Here's the Golden Demon winners in the LOTR section from Australia. Obviously the standard in Australian painting isn't up there witht he rest of the world yet so, looking back (and forward) perhaps I have a shot. What do you think.

http://demonwinner.free.fr/australia/20 ... ategorie=7

And here is some of my work.

Image

Image

Yeah, my Dwarf King doesn't have any free hand stuff but I am capable of that if I try:

Image

Image

Here is some more on my myspace design account:

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.c ... mId=817015

The biggest downfall I have is with the bases. I am not very creative with that.

Anyway guys, what do you think. Do I have a shot?

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 8:02 am 
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I think you're in with a reasonable chance. The standard of the Aussie GD is a bit hit and miss - some years it's better than others and the 2008 ones are certainly not up to world standards (a heck of lot better than I can paint mind you).

Fancy bases are a big part of the competition though, but only the Gollum base impressed me with that lot. The Dwarf is a ok I suppose, but one for Gandalf is simply ridiculous!

Go for it dude! And do us proud!

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 8:11 am 
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Right, let's see...

1st place - Gollum. Nice textured base, use of multiple modelling materials, but if Oz is anything like the UK, the bases aren't taken into account when judging, so that's irrelevant... It's a nice piece, although the blood doesn't look very real, and his eyes are a bit funny.

2nd place - Dwarf King. Again, scenic base, nice, but not part of the criteria. The axe, has very obviously been given a wash with Devlan Mud or Badab Black. If you look closely, you can see that this has dried in the axe head, where the holes are. Unless they aren't holes, and I'm spraffing, but that's what it looks like. There is some very neat freehand around the trim of the cloak, and, I think that, if the painter can do that, then they really should have made an attempt at the eyes. It's always said that the face is the focal point of a model, and this is very important with Dwarves, as a lot of this area is generally obscured by beard. Speaking of which, other than the white patch, there doesn't seem to be any evidence of highlights at all, which is inexcusable.

3rd place - Gandalf. Scenic base, very well done, but not counted. A very clean miniature painted in subdued tones. The blue sheen to the sword is overdone (whether or not there are Orcs nearby) and the front of the hat seems a little flat. This may or may not be the sculpt or overzealous cleaning. The texture of the beard is well defined, and the robes are very well done. Bar the sword, I can't really find fault with this mini.

Overall, Gandalf is the mode that impresses me most, and would have been my choice for First place.

Now, to answer your question.


If I was looking solely at the pictures in the thread, and the 3 winners, I'd say no. You have a very distinctive layering technique, which I find pleasing, thinking Kev Dallimore/ Dave Andrews style here, but I don't think it's what wins GD's. Also, the freehand on the banner is 'chunky' but I'm aware that it's 3 years old, and can see you have progressed since then.

I had a look at your other pics and I'm well impressed with those. Particularly the Scouts and the Space Marine Captain.

The Captain would be the model I think would do best, although, it could do with having the gun barrels drilled out, some additional highlighting on the Stormbolter strap and barrels, and more work on the cloak. As it stands at the moment, I think the cloak would be the models failing point, as the transition of colour is too sharp, and lacks definition, and the freehand pattern is rough. Now, by that, I mean it's a helluva lot better than anything I'll ever manage, but for true GD quality, it's just not up to standard. The base is fine as it is. There is some scenic detail, but AFAIK, bases aren't taken into account at all.

When I think GD standard, the names that stand out in my mind are Jacob Rune Neilson, Joe Hill, and Matt Parkes. Yes, there are others, but these guys work really sticks in my mind. And yes, most of them have been on the 'Eavy Metal team at one time or another. You don't need to be 'EM standard to win a GD, and there have been many occasions where the 'EM entries have lost out to normal guys work.

We have a local painter who is pretty good, he makes a lot of money doing commision work, selling painted armies, and pretty much cleans up at any painting competitions, but he's never been past the first stage of selection for a GD.

I think ultimately, you have shown the potential to do well, and the best way to answer your question I guess would be to enter next year.

That gives you just shy of 12 months to do the best you possibly can, and, hopefully walk away with something for the mantlepiece.



:-D

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:07 am 
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Heheh, Gandalf's thinking, "Now how do I get back down..."

Comparing your minis to their's, I'd be surprised if you didn't win the competition. That could just be this years standards, but your minis are infinitely better than those ones. How did Gollums win...?

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 5:42 pm 
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Captain Ingold wrote:
Heheh, Gandalf's thinking, "Now how do I get back down...


He he, funny. :) My vote would have gone for gandalf. His robes are very realistic.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 7:51 pm 
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Thanks, really enjoying the comments. When I get time I'll write a more in depth response.

For now though, Gaarew, you got me in in one, every fault you picked are things I see as weaknesses that most others miss so it tells me you had a nice long look at my minis. Thanks, I really appreciate the time you took.

Yeah, I think Gandalf is the best mini there.

I don't think of myself as GD standard painter. Not by a long shot, until I saw Australia's 2008 models and started thinking ...

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 8:13 am 
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I agree - Gandalf is the best painted mini IMHO.

Give it a go - you have nothing to lose!

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:11 am 
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Captain Ingold wrote:
Comparing your minis to their's, I'd be surprised if you didn't win the competition. That could just be this years standards, but your minis are infinitely better than those ones. How did Gollums win...?


Whenever I see comments like these, it just goes to show that there are some really naiive people there when it comes to painting (no offence ingold).

Whilst John has given a thorough analysis on each 3, he's missed quite a lot of detail. TBH, if bases were not an important part of judging, then why bother with them in the first place - the base is a work of art just as much as the miniature itself and it is important to have this consistency when you are participating in a competition of this vein.

1st place, Gollum - This is the painting form of the new age, and you are going to have to master the skills of both wetblending, and juicing in order to have a chance to compete - the use of hues is important with this one, and shows how it's an easy winner. Unfortunately as always, the photography has let this one down(same case with the dwarf) and so shadow has obscured detail. The sickly, pallid flesh of Gollum contrasts really well with the warm and cool shading which has been used, especially to create focal points such as the scars on his back, and the blood of the fish. The fish in itself draws your eyes towards the face and eyes, which form another focal point. Easy to see that this one was first, it outshines the competition clearly.

2nd place, Dwarf King - A terrible blurry photo again, which obscures detail on the beard, cloak and cloth. The beard has been highlighted, there is no way that is a flat colour; but the problem is that the NMM is really inconsistent - it looks great on the freehand, but the axe-head and chainmail really suffer as they're not as smoothly done. Another problem is the fur-lining of the cloak, messily done, with probably a wash and a couple of highlights to flatten it out. As I said before, the NMM is inconsistent, he uses SENMM for the axe, but normal NMM for the braces!

3rd place, Gandalf - Easily the weakest of the 3. Main problems are the hair (sloppily done), the sword (metallics aren't smooth), and the blending which is really nice, but no where near the same level as Gollum's.

In terms of your painting, the 2006 standard is where you really need to be at to be anywhere near competitive in such a competition :
http://demonwinner.free.fr/australia/20 ... ategorie=7

Your NMM is still really rough, with distinct layers which isn't really going to help. Also, the closeups of your standards showing your main free hand are also really thick - you will have to use many more layers to achieve a much smoother look - you need less extreme highlighting and more subtle blending, which you said your working on.

Your on the way to becoming a GD standard painter mate, but you will have to factor in learning the glazing and juicing techniques as they are the current style that miniature painters are using these days.

Sorry if I seem a bit critical, but in this case you definately have the potential to do very well, it's just going to take a lot of hard work to get to GD standard.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 12:03 pm 
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Haldir_Strikes wrote:
Whilst John has given a thorough analysis on each 3, he's missed quite a lot of detail. TBH, if bases were not an important part of judging, then why bother with them in the first place - the base is a work of art just as much as the miniature itself and it is important to have this consistency when you are participating in a competition of this vein.


Didn't I already tell you I don't bother with the details? :wink:

Re - the bases, I'm only going on what I've read about the matter, I think it was either in WD or one of the GD booklets. Outwith the constraints of the GD, these are all display pieces, which is why they are on such bases, to be honest, I don't think I've ever seen a mini in GD that didn't have a scenic base, but AFAIK, they are not taken into consideration.

:-D

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 11:18 pm 
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I'd like to respond to some posts then give some more of my own input on the Golden Demon awards

Gareew:

I agree that the Dwarf King from AUS 2006 GDs seems to have little to no highlights which is very inexcusable.
Yeah, those freehand banners are old work for me, I don't know if you can see it in my Space Marine captain but there are a bunch of gray skulls, fully shaded and 3D looking on the underside of his cape which represents what I can do now. As for the captain, I would like to drill out the gun barrels on all my marines, I really suck at all the prep stuff like sculpting, getting rid of flash and assembly, it kind of scares me so I should man up and learn cause it's a major part of the hobby.

And yes, cloaks are my bane, I just don't know what to do with so much open space. If they were flat, I'd crazy free hand on them but when they are rippled, I rely one my, as you call it, 'distinctive highlighting' technique which doesn't really translate so well to larger areas like capes. And that freehand on the Marine captain is pretty rough, I know a good artist shouldn't blame his tools but the paints were really watery and it made it hard to get bold defined lines like I do with my other free hand stuff. Any tips on getting paints less watery?

Yes, I think I might enter next year, I'll get a nice model and to a paint job and not cut any corners. It's only going to cost the me postage and I have nothing to lose. Thanks for your encouragement, I appreciate the comparison to Kevin Dallimore, after googling some of his work I was encouraged to use more blacklining they way he does it. Purdy stuff.


Haldir_Strikes:

Yeah, those photographs make the models from teh AUS 2006 GDs look worse than they are.

Your comments on the GDs were insightful and made me take a second look and I started to appreciate some of the more subtle strengths on the Gollum that I passed over the first time.

I am looking into wet-blending and juicing to see if I can incorporate them into my painting style.

And that 2006 Aragorn, wow. Now that is above my standard, very nice model, it looks more like the more realistic tones from the actual movie then the more exaggerated and colorful tones normally needed to communicate the details on a model that is very small. And this seems to work, I love how it looks so detailed with so subtle highlighting, something I don't think I could achieve. My method is to get the highlights really bright and exaggerated to get the point across.

Also, I don't actually use any NMM with my minis. I'd like to learn though as when it is done right, it blows my mind, plus I HATE working with metallic paints. I wish all my models had wooden weapons.

I pretty much agree with you, highlighting is my strength, I can do it pretty good but I need to expand my style to so I'm not a one trick pony.

As I said before, I don't consider myself even a pimple on the face of the European and US Golden Demons, I wait every year to see the finalists so my jaw can hit the floor. I love looking at them for hours and I normally get really inspired to paint and end up buying more models that time of year. They are true artists indeed. I see myself as being able to match (most of the time) the standard of armies as pictured on the box, and I don't really try and do better or go further than that. I only really bought this up after seeing the Australian winners and being taken by surprise that how far behind the rest of the world we are. To be fair, the GDs in Australia are only a few years old and the hobby doesn't have the same population as the rest of the world.

I was thinking that perhaps, during it's infancy, I could have a chance in the Australian GDs before it gets to the point where the entries are as mind blowing as the rest of the worlds.

Anyhoo, thanks for all the encouragements and criticism. Keep it coming, it doesn't offend me, even if you are not a top painter yourself as I believe that you don't need to be better at something to critique their work. That's nonsense.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 10:13 am 
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I'd say you'd have an excellent chance in the competition...I think you should enter this year and get your trophy! :)

All three winners were excellent, and your work should have no problem knocking one or more of those to the side...best of luck this year if you choose to enter!

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:15 pm 
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I'm going to be realistic here.

Your work is good, but i can see imperfections, the work that won, was well thought out, overall was creative and painted well to a very themed and nice standard.

This isn't to discredit your work however, it just sounds like your bashing on those winners, when clearly they have done amazing jobs.

I think if you picked a model, themed a base and painted it with an overall "feel/theme" look you could very well be in the judging room of the final 3 models, they always look for style and creativity, just look at the past winners of any events.

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 Post subject: Australian Golden Demon 2008
PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 10:05 am 
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Milkman wrote:
Obviously the standard in Australian painting isn't up there witht he rest of the world yet

That was uncalled for.. :sad:
But anywho thats some very impressive work youve done! Id give you a coin but they arnt exactly shall we say flowing out my pockets.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 8:21 pm 
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I don't see what's wrong. The Gollum is perhaps the best Gollum I've ever seen. :roll:

The dwarf king isn't mindblowing, but it's still very nice.

Haha and Gandalf,... the paintjob is perfect, but the base pretty much destroys the mini. :P

You're a very good painter, but I don't think you would have had a chance against these three.
Nevertheless, no harm trying next time.^^

Surprise us! 8)

Rueben

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