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Intellectual Property(IP) and GW
http://wwww.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=21699		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  ScarpeIron [ Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Intellectual Property(IP) and GW
Recently was told to remove my conversions from a game (get 'em off the table) while playing SBG in a GWshop store. Asking why, thinking at first he was joking around, I was told that due to IP and the contract/license that GW has with the makers of the film that ONLY GWshop LoTR figures can be used in games (SBG and WoTR) that are played in a GWshop store.

Anyone come across this or confirm it?

Kinda makes putting all that time and effort into conversions a ...waste. Yes, yes, yes, I know..."go play somewhere else". Valid point (in some cases) but: 1)doesn't answer my question and 2)would if there was anywhere else close by ("closest" LocalGamingShop is 45m away). So I'm slaved to GWshop for gaming and a LoTR community.

All that work into werewolves, stone giant, Beorn as a werebear...wasted. :sad:

Still, anyone know of this or am is my group getting the shaft in hopes we buy more GWshop figs. May have to open up my house for gaming...which mean cleaning it!!! :o
Author:  aelfwine [ Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Intellectual Property(IP) and GW
Well its true, you're not allowed.

As for IP, welllll.
"Defence of IP" is a very broad, very modern concept that hides a multitudes of sins and practices.

For example, when GW got the rights to LOTR (again), they signed something to prevent them from using Warhammer stuff with LOTR stuff, largely to prevent them sneaking in Orks or something onto the Pellenor Fields. The movie makers wanted GW's work to enhance the movie intellectual property and visuals, not dilute it.

This was strictly enforced. No golden demon converted entries using bits of Warhammer dwarves, no gobbos, etc. No such conversions on gaming tables. However, it had appeared that for the last few years, there was a bit more leeway into the system: the movie makers had made all the money they were going to make and there was little percentage enforcing such a rule.

What complicates matters is GW doesn't want figures on the gaming table that they can't sign off on as theirs. Their stores are advertising for their business, so they don't want someone going: hey, that looks cool, I want one, only to be told that they'd have to order that figure from another company from Ireland, Can't have that.

So, really, you're stuck gaming at home. Get out your vacuum.
Author:  cereal_theif [ Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Intellectual Property(IP) and GW
Never been told to remove a conversion from a GW original (e.g. at doubles i had converted a mounted armoured twin into glorfindel mounted armoured)
but I've been asked not to use scratch built before and models from rival companies.

At tournies it matters, in clubs its the club rules, for normal games I would get hte manager to one side and say "it isnt another companies model, its a conversion of one of your own. No IP has been breached"
If it is scratch built or using fantasy parts then ask permission and accept the ruling.
If it is another companies' model then tough bananas. Want to live with the beast(GW 666k), then wear his mark on your forehead.
Author:  Oldman Willow [ Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Intellectual Property(IP) and GW
Quote:
All that work into werewolves, stone giant, Beorn as a werebear...wasted. :sad:

Your work is hardly wasted. However, you are wasting every moment you worry about what GW thinks. Clean the house.
Join the build your own terrain WIPS.
Author:  ScarpeIron [ Thu Sep 22, 2011 5:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Intellectual Property(IP) and GW
Oldman Willow...I love you!! LoL

I'll get my WIP up later tonight or tomorrow. Since I follow your work, I might as well follow it completely and start my own terrain thread.

As for using bits from LoTR line, I will have to get clarification on that. I was basically told it was a no-go. My Easterling Queen (Eowyn and a Easterling Knight meld) is an example.

Off to wrangle and answer and throw my Elves against Moria!

-Scar
Author:  Beowulf03809 [ Thu Sep 22, 2011 5:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Intellectual Property(IP) and GW
I would find it very odd if they balk at conversions that include only GW LotR-range parts and some GS. I have only participated in one Games Day event (they are never "same day" distance from where I live) but at that there was no problem with this. And GW's own website has had examples over the years of them mixing models from different LotR forces in their conversions. If it was all "pure" LotR + GS then the store owner probably has some issues that need to be resolved anyway.

Sadly this is why I'm always very cautious on my conversion work. I can usually only afford the time/money to put to specific forces anyway and if I'm going to invest it I want to be sure that it's legal if I ever make it to another event. For example I really don't like GW's plastic Ents but I'm going to live with them as the foundation for some conversion work to try to keep them just legal-enough to be able to use. If I did a scratch built or bought someone else's model then I know in advance I'd be SOL.

Technically GW can't support their LotR models being converted using anything else though and they stick to this at events and I'm told at their stores as well, though I've never tried playing at a GW store. I can see it from their perspective though.

It sounds like most of what you were trying to use is for models that GW does not currently offer anyway, so it's really their own darn fault. Next time go in with a few companies of generic plastic Moria Goblins proxied as werewolves and the plastic Merry and Pippin stuck to a couple 60mm bases proxied as Giants. Tell them you have to do it because GW doesn't offer the models and you are not allowed to use external sources for conversion; then crush their little IP-hugging egos in a game with a few dollars worth of plastic for what would be a couple hundred dollars of FineCost if they ever get around to them. :P
Author:  Mighty.Uruk!!! [ Thu Sep 22, 2011 6:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Intellectual Property(IP) and GW
just had this happen in my local gw, however seeing it from a gw moneymaking side of things it seems like a good idea not to allow conversions of models they don't sell.
am still unhappy about it though!!
Author:  ScarpeIron [ Thu Sep 22, 2011 7:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Intellectual Property(IP) and GW
Ok, just confirmed it with my particular GWshop store.

Its ok to ravage GWshop LoTR line of figures to convert into models currently not available, and for those currently available. So I'm good.

...though I do like the idea of proxy Frodo or Sam for a Stone Giant model :lol:
Author:  Hilbert [ Thu Sep 22, 2011 7:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Intellectual Property(IP) and GW
Really that's a sad disallow... :(
Author:  Hashut's Blessing [ Thu Sep 22, 2011 8:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Intellectual Property(IP) and GW
The actual situation is that it used to be that LotR couldn't be mixed with any other model and be used, it is instead that they can't be photographed for GW publications now. However, GW models have to be used in GW - so no Kings of War mixed in or something. If it's just greenstuff and switching parts (from LotR model to LotR model) is not disallowed in any context.
Author:  GothmogtheWerewolf [ Thu Sep 22, 2011 8:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Intellectual Property(IP) and GW
Can I ask you guys a question about this. This Saturday I'm planning on going for a game of WOTR in GW, and I plan to take a werewolf pack for my Angmar army, the only componants used are green stuff and LOTR wargs. Do you thik that I would be able to use them?
Author:  Hashut's Blessing [ Thu Sep 22, 2011 8:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Intellectual Property(IP) and GW
They have no legal standing to say no, but it's best to check with the oragniser first - it's always at the discretion of the person running it, whether the laws say so or not, lol.
Author:  Hilbert [ Thu Sep 22, 2011 9:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Intellectual Property(IP) and GW
Hope they allow them because they are awesome 8)
Author:  Beowulf03809 [ Thu Sep 22, 2011 9:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Intellectual Property(IP) and GW
GothmogtheWerewolf wrote:
Can I ask you guys a question about this. This Saturday I'm planning on going for a game of WOTR in GW, and I plan to take a werewolf pack for my Angmar army, the only componants used are green stuff and LOTR wargs. Do you thik that I would be able to use them?


That's the perfect example where they should not deny you. I hope they serve you well. Let us know how it goes.
Author:  GothmogtheWerewolf [ Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Intellectual Property(IP) and GW
Thank you, I did not think that there would be a problem at first, but then this post scared me a little. Appreciate the positive comments, if possible, I will attempt to take some pics for a battle report. If not, I will just tell you. I will give you a link from this thread after the battle.
Author:  jscottbowman [ Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Intellectual Property(IP) and GW
GothmogtheWerewolf wrote:
Can I ask you guys a question about this. This Saturday I'm planning on going for a game of WOTR in GW, and I plan to take a werewolf pack for my Angmar army, the only componants used are green stuff and LOTR wargs. Do you thik that I would be able to use them?


Got a picture of them?
Author:  GothmogtheWerewolf [ Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Intellectual Property(IP) and GW
Here's a link to my WIP, there's some pics of them in there (see pages 1 and 2):

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=21052
Author:  Lorizael [ Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Intellectual Property(IP) and GW
A lot of time this depends on the individual GW and the staff/manager there.
Normally conversions for Fantasy/40K are all well and good as are scratchbuilds- using other company's models is (obviously) a no.

They have some weird things with LotR stuff though due to the deal with new line.
Any LotR posters they have in store can't be written on or have any other logos on them- if they have a box on the poster for writing in (dates etc) then it must all stay in the box. There's a whole list of guidelines I got shown once by a local manager.
Author:  ScarpeIron [ Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Intellectual Property(IP) and GW
Those werewolves, should be good.

Remember, from what I was told it is OK to make a conversion as long as there is a least some aspect of a "bit" from the Games Workshop LoTR line of figures. There can be no 40k or Fantasy or other Miniature Company bits...just Games Workshop Lord of the Ring miniatures. I specifically asked "using 80% greenstuff and a wargs head to make a werewolf is ok?" the answer: "yes". Being that from my GWshop store. So I don't foresee a issue. Though as stated, each person ...running... the event can say yes or no. It'd be a jerk move if they did say no.

...and Werewolf, great looking werewolves!!! :yay:
Author:  Oldman Willow [ Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Intellectual Property(IP) and GW
So much easier to clean the house :lol:
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