Well I will definitely get them. Because even if GW decide not to, I can simply sculpt my own

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You don't have to be great to start. But you do have to start to be great.

I guess that's "every single time" except the most recent?






I doubt the stores who choose not to stock the Hobbit were doing so out of ignorance. The half dozen independents who DID carry stock in my city did NOT move much of it until they slashed prices to clear it out.

I would speculate, based on what my Gaming group fields that Dwarves and Orcs from AUJ didn't sell greatly while Elves from DoS sold somewhat well. Given that I would not be surprised if GW decided simply to limit the BoFAs releases to the Elves and play it safe. And Smaug. Because who doesn't want a dragon. (well I guess I don't, but W/E)

Granted GW's actions have become difficult to predict and for all I know tomorrow they'll announce they have 20 plastic kits in the pipeline.

I love all these comments about Dain, Bain, Gundabad Orcs, Ballistas, Trolls, Bats, and the rest. I have to agree with those that are saying that the sculpts were already being produced and made before the film was released. EXTREMELY disappointed that Peter Jackson and Co. got rid of so many things from the trailers. The volley shot that looked like it was aimed at the dwarves of the Iron Hills. The goat pulled chariot. Lots and lots of changes in those final months of production. Hopefully they will ALL be in the extended edition of the movie that comes out toward the end of the year I'm sure. I'll be in the hunting for that.

As for the GW production of all these items, it will most likely never happen. I do believe that GW is taking a massive step back and away from LOTR/The Hobbit SBG this year. It can be seen already with many of the variations of the smaller three piece packs going away and the downgrade from 24 to 12 figures in a box over the last few years. It is a sad thing to say, but I am afraid that we have seen the beginning of this games slip into total removal from production. Would it be great if some other pieces were released before it is all over? HECK YA! But with Warhammer and 40k as the primary pull for GW, I don't really see them continuing to put much effort into LOTR/The Hobbit. I wouldn't be surprised if by this time next year, they are completely done with producing pieces. The market was just not great enough to save it. Which is too bad, cause I really love this game and I enjoy collecting, building, painting, and battling with my armies.

So maybe we will see some new stuff! One must hold onto hope!

Alexanjason, while they have to meet a certain number of kits produced per year, by instruction of the licence, I don't doubt that they are saving what's left of the BOFA stuff for future years so they don't have to come up with original profiles.

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I don't want to argue with you. But often they don't mention any systems. That is not a negative. In the 2011 press release by WB about the license extension was all positive and talking about it now Third Core System. I have no doubt that in 2011 there were not any releases going on for LOTR and we were all in wonder about the lack of support. So, mixed signals? Absolutely. But GW was affirming with WB that the relationship was wanted and that they could not wait to bring more LOTR character so the Fans (not exact quote but it is in there somewhere like that).


I cannot pretend to know what happens at every store. But I choose to ignore them because I am not ignorant, not that they are ignorant, but they are also not really selling the product either.
LOTR is not advertised at all, we can agree on this right? In 2001 I did not know about LOTR models at all and I was buying Reaper and WHF regularly from two stores. suddenly I spotted them and was like "wow" ever since I was buying everything 1 store could stock, the other store would tell me it doesn't sell so we don't carry it. Now they have been telling me this line for 14 years now. If you never carry the product then you can never sell it. If you only carry the starter box that any fan would have already then you will never sell any. If you only carry 10 blisters of Wormtongue and not a single blister of Uruk Hai then you will not see sales. This I saw first hand. So were they ignorant, no, just not good at marketing a product they didn't know anything about. Am I ignorant for not taking their word for it? No, they are right, they are not selling it at all, and I am buying it all the time from other sources. They are the ones losing and so are other fans like me who just will never know what is available because the store doesn't carry it.
If that one store had not set up a special spot for LOTR so I could see it, it may have been a long time before I started buying them. I am so glad I found these as WHF was not as enjoyable to collect. I still love Reaper models though.


If you asked me 10 years ago what will sell for Hobbit I would have told you Elves. So that is not any surprise considering even in LOTR elves were very popular. Dwarves were very popular too, but just not the expensive 10-12 packs released in these modern times. I would still say price per model is the #1 killer of this game if anything.
But I still would not take sales at any 1 store or even a dozen and pretend to know what actual sales are for Hobbit and more important than sales is profit, as we know that cheaper molds, cheaper lower product runs, and cheaper material but with a higher sticker price, not a single person on this site could say what they are making (unless they are insiders and then they will not tell anyway.)
It is obvious with the number of Unreleased models that collectors on here get that there are leaks of product and info, so somebody knows or knows people that know and they are not telling.


In the end, I am sure everyone is right. That LOTR and the Hobbit was a bad investment and never sold and they should have dropped it or never bought it. Since the sources saying that stuff are also just as in the dark as we are, I choose to err on the side of positive that GW at least pocketed some money and paid some dividends on stocks with this investment in it's time.

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http://www.sithious.webs.com

And would these generic Dwarves and goat riders make it to the webstore?

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My Miniatures Blog (covering LOTR/Terminator/Doctor Who/Warpath and more!):
http://cruciumgiger.blogspot.co.uk/

Please forgive me for not reading your preceding post carefully - I didn't realise you're talking about the whole ~15year history of the SBG as opposed to just the last ~3years of the Hobbit Era which I was referring to.

However given the context of the thread - the likelihood of additional Hobbit releases - what has happened in the LotRs era doesn't seem relevant, except as a benchmark to gauge what is happening NOW in the Hobbit era.

I would agree that the anecdotal sales of a handful of stores is not a solid indication of how the line is selling and that no one outside of GW really knows for sure what the numbers are.

HOWEVER in conjunction with OTHER indicators it is possible to advance a reasonably supported theory:

A. In the LotRs bubble era SOME people might have said the LotRs wasn't selling but the huge spike in GW revenue, attributed by the CEO directly to the LotRs, and the massive continued support to the range following the last movie tended to indicate different. During the Hobbit on the otherhand, GW profits have continued to drop despite massive slashes in services, and massive increases in price. That they may have referred positively to the SBG *before* the hobbit was released isn't a surprise, but the fact the CEO most recently refers to the SBG as a "rapidly declining exception" AFTER release isn't really a mixed signal.

B. Support has decreased from a load of plastics for troops that barely had a part in the movie (MW Palace Guard, Warriors of Dale and Erebor, Grimhammers) to finecast or (so far) nothing for troops that are actually prominent in the film (MW Elves, Gundabad Orcs, Lake Town Militia, Iron Hill Dwarfs). In other words the reverse of the LotRs trend which saw the range start as mostly metal, then balloon into plastics as it took off. Similarly GW released the third hobbit book "free" rather than trying to charge for it.

C. The range is being allowed to disappear as it goes out of stock. In the case of some of the more obscure collectible models it's hardly the end of the world. However some fairly important models as well as several of the army books are also gone. Given the price of some of these models on Ebay, GW could be making money by doing short production runs of the OOP models. However they don't seem interested in doing so.


Now that's not to say there aren't arguments supporting continued support:

1. The 2014 financial report did not include BoFA sales and it's possible, indeed likely that sales would peak following the BoFA in much the same way that LotRs reached it peak in the year or so following RotK.

2. The licence has rumoured to have been extended - which may mean continued support, or may just mean they wanted a few more years to try and sell off the remaining stock and recoup something.

3. It's rumoured the licence *requires* GW to release product for it's duration. In which case saving the Iron Hills dwarfs to be released later to fulfill contractual obligations rather than have to sculpt something new makes sense. However it was also strongly rumoured that Smaug wasn't going to be released because WB was insisting it be made unfeasibly large...

4. Smaug sales. GW generated a fair amount of revenue from Smaug which may encourage them to take a chance with more product.



Countering 1 & 4 however is D. The LotRs bubble. Even supposing the BoFAs as a whole sold very well, I would speculate that GW would be expecting the bubble this time around and be very hesitant devoting additional resources to the range without the immediacy of the movies supporting it and

E. LotRs was originally picked up in part to avoid another company acquiring the licence and making a product to compete with WHFB. Given that GW is primarily concerned with it's own IPs, it may not want to release further products to compete with the Warhammer Bubblantasy Battles reboot rumoured to be in the works.



I'm not trying to be negative, just realistic. There is a good chance, regardless of what we fans may want, that GW will do little or nothing. I would rather expect the worse and be pleasantly surprised, than live in hope of something that may never come.

Should I be proved wrong I look forward to reading your "I told you so post" in the future.

GW: the speed of light (or else, the greatest selling policy ever)

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Conversation/Ideas over painting etc, can check here:
http://www.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=29455

Won't happen. lol.
I am a fence walker, just because I am saying That there is evidence that LOTR and Hobbit did well or at least was worth the investment, that doesn't mean that I am strongly supporting any one side.
If someone is all gloom and doom that we will get nothing then I choose to throw some sunshine and hope their way and say, we don't know that yet.
If someone says that GW HAS to make models, then I will throw some clouds their way and say we don't really know that for sure.

I know that when sales were good, many people said it was a failing system that didn't sell. When sales are supposedly bad, record numbers of players are around and more fan support than ever (I assume they are buying models and rules even if secondary). So how can anyone say one way or another just yet? We can't. I will be just as surprised as everyone if they make another release, and if they don't, I will be surprised and disappointed which most people would be.

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http://www.sithious.webs.com

I think Sithious quote was in large part true during the LOTR movie releases. I think that a significant percentage of the LOTR profits were generated outside the conventional GW store/FLGS, so store managers and poeple who's only exposure was within the store system did not know the full extent of the LOTR sales. I know I heard a lot bashing of the SBG during it's heyday by 40K players, most of which was just uninformed sour grapes becuase GW was "wasting" development time on something other than 40K.

As far as the Hobbit releases go, I think they suffered from the duel problem of too high prices and poor advertising/support for attracting new players. I think most of the people who invested any significant amount into The Hobbit were players like me who were already heavily invested into the original LOTR line, and had enough "disposable income" to afford more than the original EfGT box set.


I would say that the WETA Hobbit dwarf and wood elf releases were both appealing as better than the GW designed versions from the LOTR line. IMO the problem with the Hobbit dwarves was mainly the somewhat imited list. Lots of characters, but only two troop types with no missile troops or cavalry. The Hobbit wood elves are just a more playable list.


Me either. I would have loved a Smaug gaming piece, even at $100-200. An oversized (for gaming) $500 display piece? Not so much.


I would love for you to be proved wrong. Unfortunatly, I don't expect you will be.

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Mike

“The Ring has awoken, it’s heard its masters call.”
– Gandalf

I honestly think it's time to all it.. No we won't ever Dain, Bain or any others... Time to make your own of find substitutes.

Of course we do already have Dáin (and i much prefer him to the BotFA version).

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Dáin-and-Balin

I've been wondering if they are holding back on a final wave of releases until the BotFA extended edition hits DVD/BR. If we don't say anything then, I think you can stick a fork in GWs Hobbit range and call it done.
It'll be a shame if they don't capitalise on the army troops we've seen on screen in the final film. The catapult trolls would have made a great plastic model, and there's certainly enough there for warband sized releases for all five armies.
It's nigh on impossible to predict what GW will do with the licence now. Their business decisions appear to be made under some confluence of arcane and dark magicks that have little to no bearing on market demands.
Either way, we still have a great gaming system, and there are plenty of models around from other manufacturers to use as proxies.
Personally, I'm done with GW forever. Their blatant contempt for customers and unabashed price gouging have killed any enthusiasm I had for their product.
I'll be looking to my extensive LotR collection and other manufacturers to fill out the booming gaps in their range.

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Cheers
Athelas

a good sub for Dain would be Thrain.
fur coat, check.
massive hammer, check.
or possibly young Dwalin - mohawk and everything.

I am still hoping that with the extended release comes at least a few minis, I'd rather have a proper official Dain Ironfoot. also hoping for berserker orcs, maybe some bats, ironhill dwarves, dwarves on chariots / rams, troll variants.
(don't really care for Bain though)

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jobs. shelter. food. it's all they ever bleat about!

I'm hoping (but not really expecting) for a few more releases before they finally kill the game.


I hate to say it, but I'm about at that point too. I have not played 40K or FB for years, the only GW games I am still really interested in are either dead (BFG and WM) or dying (LOTR/Hobbit). Once they do drop the SBG all together, I'm not at all sure I'll ever buy a GW product again.... sigh.

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Mike

“The Ring has awoken, it’s heard its masters call.”
– Gandalf

Other than the paints I don't see me getting anything once hobbit/Lotr is dropped. I am focusing on getting the remaining bits I want. Once they are gone I have a few ideas for conversions using the various plastic historical figures which should keep me busy and ther is always ebay to pick up any bits I miss.

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my lord of the rings blog

http://journeyofthering.wordpress.com

Still got my fingers crossed for a few more bits but I am not expecting them.

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my lord of the rings blog

http://journeyofthering.wordpress.com

I'm surprised to hear this. When the first LOTR movie came out in 2001 the game was everywhere! GW was selling the LOTR game and miniatures in mass market book and toy store chains all over the US. I remember walking into my local Barnes & Noble book store and seeing entire pallets of LOTR games, box sets and paint sets on the sales floor.


I guess I was lucky back then. I was a huge Tolkein geek even before the movies came out, and there were several others at my FLGS. We bought into the game big time, and once we started playing in the store, and doing big scenarios during our monthly club meetings, other people jumped on board. The shop owner stocked all the new relases and happily special orders LOTR stuff for years. He made a bundle off of us!

Between the last LOTR movies, and the first Hobbit movie I moved to another state. My new location didn't seem to have the Tolkein geek core my old FLGS did, so while they stocked the original Hobbit releases and I bought them, I don't think they were ever a big seller here so he didn't bother stocking the second two movie releases.


That, and the lack of any real support. The LOTR game and relases got a lot of exposure in WD, but not so much the Hobbit. No real support in store either so combined with the higher prices the game never took off.



This is only half right. During the hey-days of the the LOTR movies, the LOTR game was a huge financial success for GW. More than once source has stated that profits from the LOTR game helped finance GWs move into their major investment in plastic casting. After the end of the movies, though, interest did wain and it never recovered when the Hobbit movie were released.

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Mike

“The Ring has awoken, it’s heard its masters call.”
– Gandalf